the solution to the holy2004.htm riddle
By Thoughts (Late April 2006)
Courtesy of, part of the images searching section.

Yep, the solution is at the bottom. But it is worth reading from the top, and try sidepaths out, and not jumping there at once... if you care for image searching techniques and lore.

Leaving for holydays... (16/07/04 22:26:26)
    Small, simple images riddle... I know, I know, i'm getting somehow emotiver, not only older :-(

    Have a nice sommer!
    Love, Enjoy, Feel your beloved ones!
    See you all in September!


You might wanna fix the arrows link 'father' :) if you haven't already left (n/t) (16/07/04 23:15:36)


Hmm... (17/07/04 05:43:11)
    For some reason the name "Bonnie Prince Charlie" came to mind, but that search did not lead anywhere. Scottish father/grandfather (see broken arrows link)? Man with a "fishing hat" in the background? Cound the round hats on the children date the setting? It looks very familiar for some reason. I am also very curious to know what text reflected/obscured in the top left corner says. Scanned from something?

Re: Leaving for holydays... (17/07/04 08:25:55)
    Could John Groves be the painter?

    still searching

it looks like a scan from a magazine or something (17/07/04 13:56:55)
    there's mirrored letters in the background. with a bit of photo-enhancement
    i could make out that the word spelled "mance", i guess probably "romance"?

    ok this is highly probable a dead lead end, but i really didn't know where
    to look else.

    put some random keywords from the image into google image search, browsed
    a few hundred pages with sample images, until i gave up with the notion that
    i don't even know if it will show in image search, even IF i provide the
    right keywords.

    i don't know how to do this.

    - ritz

finance (in parenthesis) --> (finance) (17/07/04 14:09:39)
    finance (in parenthesis) --> (finance)

    use a good enlarger and play with darker colors

    scanned from a magazine i believe & those words are printed on the back
    the word "new spec" appears in small characters in the first row under the black bar under finance

    but i think that these words on the back are not related to the riddle and are just a result of the zine scanning

Re: finance (in parenthesis) --> (finance) (17/07/04 22:50:24)
    True, but the fact that it was in a zine might be helpful.

Maritime History on the Internet : A guide to doing maritime history research online (19/07/04 12:34:44)


    PS : i checked on the "Maritime Art Greenwich", found nothing (i used the keyword "rough", i guess it is an important keyword (according to the old riddles of f+))

Scotland? (n/t) (19/07/04 14:55:54)


Let us say what we see and guess (19/07/04 15:02:26)
    A grand-father with a Glengarry beret, a mother, two children with beret too, one seaman and another bearded man standing on a stone pier washed with gale formed waves.

    The kids express fear and angst
    The old man, the father express hope
    The wife express strenght
    The men behind express resolution and doubt

    What is happening at sea is not hard to guess, a captain related to all the persons on the picture, is piloting his vessel through a very difficult manoeuvre.

    As finance can be seen in reverse on the other page, my guess is that this painting (in black and white?) describes an ominious wreck, the cargaison of which was covered by Lloyds of London.

If it's a financial paper, a message of hope is more likely than despair, as in weathering the coming storm or something. (n/t) (12/08/04 00:09:29)


Re: Financial - because of the word "finance"? (13/08/04 12:26:32)
    Then I suggest "The Economist"

vvf dear (14/08/04 13:48:26)
    Economy, and related media are, I guess, what do not count here but the feelings expressed by all the painted persons. Did you noticed that one seagull is actually not flying?

    We must try harder.


Just keeping the thread afloat (14/08/04 17:51:36)
    If you have a digital camera, which you probably do, would you mind posting a few shots inside the Bowl?

    Whatever you find stunning on your farseafaring journey.

    Corsaire ou flibustier?

    ... vent en poupe, always! :)

Brought forth on Ritz's request :-) (09/08/04 20:36:06)
    I still was not able to find a solution...

Brought even farther :) (n/t) (11/08/04 07:09:30)


paintings SE (22/01/05 22:09:29)

sea and ships (22/01/05 22:29:56)
    is a category here

    but the painting is not in that list...

150,000 paintings searchable (22/01/05 22:44:37)

a brief history of art (22/01/05 22:50:30)
    with searchable links, here

    can we identify a style/period?

Re: a brief history of art (23/01/05 09:23:50)
    Husband at see somewhere, tempest. Mother and kids do/don't despair. Experienced mariner explains evtl chances.
    Other experienced mariners in the background doubt.


12th to mid-19th century paintings (c. 11,000) (22/01/05 23:16:14)

More Image Questions --Project Origo (11/02/05 22:34:01)
    I normally hesitant to post to message boards because I figure the answer is out there -- I just haven't looked hard enough.
    However, I'm stumped on this one: Fravia's new page 'Project Origo' has an image on it of a man holding a copy of 'Historia'.
    I've tried finding the source of the image. A review of the source shows that the name of the image is 414417.jpg.
    I get no relevant hits when searching for that name, nor does using a description of the painting
    work (e.g., Historia, book, hourglass, library, etc). I've also tried various image search engines.
    Does anyone have suggestions?

18,000 more searchable paintings - The Athenaeum (24/01/05 17:36:53)

    The Athenaeum currently has 18474 artworks by 890 artists. These artworks are in private collections as well as 618 museums. Members of The Athenaeum can add new artworks, comment existing artworks on their display pages, and more.


250,000 searchable works of art - allposters (25/01/05 17:34:38)

more paintings at artfact (01/02/05 16:33:46)

Re: more paintings at artfact (04/02/05 10:24:06)

Re: more paintings at artfact (04/02/05 11:03:53)

could it be a newspaper scan? (23/01/05 00:14:58)
    I agree it is a scan, you can also see the slight tilt of the page

    Could it be from a newspaper?

    most magazines are colour, but this is b/w which may mean a newspaper - though what such a picutre is doing in a paper, i cant fathom

    now i dont know thing 1 about art, but is this an "oil on canvas" painting?

    notice the branding on his cap/hat. scottish? tartan? highlander?

    is this painting style 'realism'?

    date: looks early 20th century to my untrained eye

    FR+ says some people may know, does this indicate a famous painting?

flip horizontally, triangle, texture (23/01/05 03:11:14)
    If the picture is flipped horizontally results are different.
    Could be useful to search (finance) into a triangle (a logo?).
    The image texture looks like fabric or something textil.

image searching techniques (23/01/05 13:28:23)
    some small n00b tricks for image searching

    1) of course, read the lore and essays - prepare your arrows with thought and care

    2) i like faganfinder for image searching

    3) evaluation lore: increase your speed - use a fast browser - for me opera shades it over firefox - with firefox use the extenstions - with opera think speed - tabbed browsing is a must - learn the browser. Most of all reprogram your keys - i use 1 and 2 to go through tabs, 3 to close a tab, 4 open link in background window, "a" to go through links. Doesnt beat a bot, but it sure as hell is better than point and click.

Re: image searching techniques (23/01/05 20:52:29)
    i liked that fagan; added it to my location bar for convinence

    i finaly went and got rid of my realplayer ra, which really never plays any ra, to hear 909 in a different never have recognized it
    now seriously; uve been around;
    who-@Ever, welcome; i like your energy


Jm, butterfly, check this :-) (23/01/05 22:06:40)

    Jeff-o found a vault :-)

Re: Jm, butterfly, check this :-) (23/01/05 22:39:27)
    :-) ...

    notice the spelling - karnei - the spelling killed us before to if i recall -Qarney

    i like this version even better - more upbeat - gawd i swore id never listen to that song again :)

off topic - attn jeff (24/01/05 02:49:58)
    sorry for the interuption.

    Hey jeff long time no see - would like the chance to catch up, pop into malas sometime (its the best spam filter I know :-) then perhaps we can talk again.


Re: off topic - attn Quin - is that yOU? get my xmas card? (24/01/05 03:52:19)
    by the 42 gawds is that really you?

    answer the question and i will bow my head in malas palace

    what is the password??

Re: Re: Jm, butterfly, check this :-) (04/02/05 02:33:49)
    Vekhol Karney
    vekol karne

    the possibilities are endless ;)


addendum (24/01/05 01:25:42)
    one addendum is to make use of the & operator in your keyboard shortcuts

    i cannot emphasise enough how much this sharpens the opera sword for bulk searching - for example:

    "Highlight next URL&Highlight next URL&Highlight next URL&Open link in background page"

    then as i say use 1 and 2 for next/previous tab, 3 to close tab - 4 to highlight next tab (+open in background page if you like) - you will see what an awesome browser opera truly is - imagine just holding down a key and having 100 pages open - then racing through them back and forward, by the time youve searched the first few, the other will be loaded

    try it - alt p (keyboard and mouse), type in those useless numbers shortcuts and overwright them

    you will find it possilbe to open 1000 pages in under an hour - ps jeff this will solve the other searching problem (mordred i hope this is not a spoiler, but the aim is better searching, right ;)) - as i said the keywords are not hard - persistence is the solution unless you have a bit of luck/insight

    as for me, thank you for the welcome - i assure i am a new reader, as i learn more i hope maybe to add some things to these fine pages

speed searching (24/01/05 08:49:14)
    speed searching or, how many pages can i evaluate in one minute? :)

    seems like the ideal way to do what loki did, just look at the number
    of queries he produced and then you at least have to evaluate 1-5 SE results
    per query..

    will take some practice, but i think it is worth the effort.

    "Highlight next URL&Highlight next URL&Highlight next URL&Open link in background page"
    this one skips three links and then opens the third in background, am i correct? what's that for, extra fast skipping thru the links on a page?

    - ritz

Re: speed searching (24/01/05 12:30:32)
    yep - i have keys to skip 1, 3, 4 links

    open url in background first, then skip links is best - experiment to see what you find fastest

Re: speed searching (24/01/05 14:27:20)
    Just found a great one:

    Highlight next block&Highlight previous URL&Highlight next URL&Open link in background page

    1 alp P
    2 keyboard and mouse
    3 select keyboard 'map'
    4 Edit
    5 enter shortcut (0-9 my favs.)
    6 Edit, tab, OK


Re: Re: speed searching (24/01/05 15:10:37)
    17 mg 7.5 opera download- geesh

    haven't read the 30 days to Opera yet

    does what u explain work with opera 6.2?

    haven't tried to test whatever it is u r talking/refering/ to/about


Get 7.54, it's worth it. (24/01/05 15:12:57)
    I don't remember what exactly is this, but you may find it useful


Re: ahahahahah - l lub u Sea :) (n/t) (24/01/05 15:14:11)


Re: Re: installation (24/01/05 15:19:20)
    do i install it OVER the 6.2/same dirctory - or uninstall 6.2?


Re: Re: Re: installation (24/01/05 16:59:30)
    It installs in a new directory of its own, no need to uninstall 6.2 You might want to make it the default browser for a while (check "tools/preferences") to play with it. This answer is probably too late anyway ;)

    It doesn't hurt to install Firefox too. Don't let its stripped-to-the-bone looks dissappoint you, some FF. extensions truly rock.

Re: Re: Re: Re: installation (24/01/05 17:56:42)
    thanks Vvf - nah i haven't installed it yet

    puter is acting up again - so ill have to shut down- will install after the fresh boot


Back to the riddle (25/01/05 13:52:52)

    Could have been painted at any time. One thing is to notice the waterproof coats that they are all wearing - it's hard to judge what they are, but in any case the painting would have been after this kind of material was worn. If it is polymer based it indicates 20th century.

    The painting has a feel of "oldness" - pre 1950 I'd think - so keywords like 1800..1950 may be of use.

    I have scoured MANY galleries and had some signal but nothing really equating to this pic. An idea of time can be gained from looking at paintings by year,
    for example.

    I personally found the strongest signal around mid 19th century.


    Well FR+ said it was easy - one visual clue is the material on the sailors hat/cap - glengarry was mentioned before - notice the tartan style cross inside the squares too. What is this type of headgear?

    Anyway, we are guessing Scotland - though equally there is a small chance of irish/canadian/american and the like. Puritan/prodestant was mentioned as a theme.

    This also is similar to many of the american styles of paintings?

    Any art experts able to comment on the style?

    Also we have the hint that it is a newspaper/magazine scan - at an angle. Just because "(finance)" appears doesnt necessarily mean a finance related magazine, it could just be a section.


    Most paintings have very short titles, so the keywords may not help too much here. We are perhaps looking for a description.

    + Rough
    + painting
    + 1800..1950

    ~ picture|art|gallery

    ~ Description & Artist & Date & Measurements|Dimension often appear in descs

    ~ sea
    ~ waves
    ~ storm

    ~ hat|cap|headgear

    ~~ uniform
    ~~ man
    ~~ woman
    ~~ child|children
    ~~ seagull|seagulls
    ~~ beret
    ~~ pointing

    ~~ "marine art"|"maritime art" gives some signal
    ~~ "Oil on canvas"? is it?

    What are they standing on? A peir? A jetty?

    What kind of clothing are they wearing?

    We need to increase this pool.

    What do you think?

Re: Back to the riddle (25/01/05 14:20:39)
    Hat seems to be Balmoral ot Glengarry - gotta research more the scottish headgear though.
    In the picture we can't see a clan badge, or ribbon (or the red ball on the top of the head). If it were full-colour scan, we could try to find the clan it belongs to, hehe:

Re: Re: Back to the riddle (25/01/05 14:51:07)
    Here we can see some more keywords on the hats AND possible dates. I know the resource is shitty, but I couldn't find a more reliable one for the time being.

    Add also "cap" and "bonnet" to the 'hat' words. My money is on the balmoral style.

hat dictionary (25/01/05 16:13:18)
    nice work, im liking balmoral and the date 1850s could be a signal

    i found a hat dictionary too!

    "*balmoral: Scotch Bluebonnet. woolen beret cap with top projecting over tartan band of Stuart colors, 1850's"

More on the Balmoral (hat|cap|bonnet) (26/01/05 16:01:27)
    We have to know if others would use our keywords to describe the same object (would they say a 'maroon dress', or a 'pink dress'). Here is a couple of textual descriptions of a painting featuring a Balmorall bonnet. It does not matter much that they are TWO descriptions, as they actually review the same book, so they have just 'copied' what the author himself said. Still, the actual painting (see below) DOES contain a similar hat (it's even in a larger detail)



Re: More on the Balmoral (hat|cap|bonnet) (26/01/05 18:06:18)
    nice links mordred!

    'diced' may be a keyword - this is a riddle within a riddle, perhaps identifying the hat will lead us no closer to the solution - in fact, id be suprised if it was on the page - but at this point we dont know, and a little learning is better than none at all

    I also found this:

    The "Balmoral" style bonnet is the most popular style of headwear. And it approximates more closely to the old broad bonnet of the Highlander. It is generally dark blue, green, and brown in color, and may have a pom-pom (usually) of red. The bonnet should display the crest buckle and strap in silver of the wearer, (if he is entitled to wear one - if he is in fact, a member of that clan). Under no circumstances should ordinary clansmen wear the crest without the strap and buckle which indicates that the wearer is merely displaying the topmost part of his chief's crest in the strap and buckle. Only the Chief of the Clan is entitled to wear the full Crest. The diced (or orange checkered) band around the base of the balmoral indicates loyalty to the House of Hanover, i.e. the King/Queen of England. Highlanders generally do NOT wear the diced Balmoral, but choose to wear the plain dark blue bonnet; many lowlanders may choose wear the diced cap as they are intermingled with English blood and loyalties. Some Lowlanders also will not wear the diced cap. It is a matter of loyalties as some Lowlanders and Highlanders are loyal to the highlands, and would not wear the diced cap, even after all these years.

Re: Re: Back to the riddle (26/01/05 22:10:07)
    as far as i can guess u guys are right --> balmoral
    glengary seems smaller-flatter-less phoffy

    [paintshoprpro 7]
    asmof - are not the two children perhaps wearing the glengary? the child in background seems to have a ball (or its a shadow on the raingear)the forward child seems to be wearing a cap/bonnet/glengary/ with bangs hanging out also

    using PSP7 there seems to be a hint of the ball on the old man at 412,57

    the old man does seem to have the dark empty spacing where ++++ fabric abruptly stops;(aprox area, 405,100---) where some picks show the placement area of ribbons or medals

    diced seems to be the good word too

    i think u guys have it with balmoral

    do i think those words (balmoral/cap/bonnet/baret/etc) to be on the page the image can be found at? na; for some reason i don't

    butt it sure makes feel better to localize - i have a feeling when found it will have a .uk in url; just my feeling because of:
    1.most rough sea images i came across were of uk origin
    2.most storm/y/sea/s/rough/gale/ship/rescue/history/etc/etc/paintings seemed to be of uk natured
    3.most shipwrecks seemed to be of uk url parentage
    4.most maritime sites coming up when using my own keywords seemed to be uk
    5.glengary balmoral

    way up above selim posts: Scotland?
    that has always thrown me off some-still does- because i always read it as - "are you sure?"

    made me wonder if it were austrailia or nz irish welsh etc etc...

    kept thinkin its some 'event' butt not know where - the balmoral gets me back to thinkin an event in scotland (so far as the painters viewpoint)


    butt as far as the scanned image FROM some certain editorial viewpoint i think the message was different (than the painters viewpoint- though probably related by concept or sublim)

    will 'copyright', or the symbol, be on the page of an article or news mag?

    seems to be two possible routes to the image:
    1.the painters route
    2.the publishers route

    went and finaly reread the riddle page and image; of course i should have yesterday instead of relying on memory

    because f+ mentions:
    Well... who? where? and when? painted the above depicted (in black and white) image?
    Can you (relatively quickly) find the same in colors on the web?

    this is what i rememeber then- and my intereptation-
    the image depicted is in black and white (butt)
    but it will be found easier in colors
    and it is 'painted'

    i think then the 'painters route' is probably easiest
    the finacial route is more direct

    This is a easy one, he: Just look at the image.

    could f+ know when he scanned this the alledged words 'finance' would show thru?
    was that possibility the clue all along - or only the image on face value?

    i believe whoa! is a signature not to be ignored in context so ive got to go with finance in one form or another of encountering, riding the storm out, and help is on the horizon...while still knowing the 'painting' came from somewhere even to have landed in an article/

    why is it 'easy' just too look at the image?

    entering a rough sea

    scratchin haid- ok sorry- just wanted to get some words in here- see what floats to the top later perhaps


Re: Back to the riddle (25/01/05 21:27:44)
    "oil on canvas" is it?

    if it isn't - one would want to knock out word 'canvas'
    use "oil on"

    this was a scan so its deminsions r out probably (i would never put it past tricky fravia :)

    but if size is on a page or in an alt statement and indexed one might use #x# and get lucky (sometimes even bytes)

    am sure i don't need to tell u these things but will input it for record and anyone just curious about diffeenyt patterns of searching
    (taken from old notes - the returns count is probably different today)
    Visualy Building a word list:
    "Oil on" *131,000 hits
    Obviously we are not going to get to see 130,000 of these returns, because of google limit, unless or until we get more specific...
    But some of the things we will be able to see as we yo yo and scroll can be very satisfying depending upon what youseek.
    In this case we might be using these two keywords to do nothing more than to try to identify, and then to List names or urls of gallerys.
    It also is a good way to build a word list. What words might come after "oil on" that might bring you to the masterpieces?
    When we scroll thru the returns we can build a word list that can then break UP that 131,000 into managable categories.

    "oil on canvas" * 106,000
    Oil on linen.........*10,700
    "oil on panel" .......*8,180
    "oil on wood"......* 6,440
    "oil on Board"....*14,000
    etc etc etc

    this all presume of course that the pic is also a painting and an 'oil' (as we know its a scan; and we know fravia knows it can be found - hopefully not in some magazine news database :)...i don't recall right now; ill need to go back and look; butt i think he indicated somewhere in tricky language that this would be found in color easier than blacknwhite grey - can't recall
    this again led me to think painting

    i looked for about 3 days- about 3-4 hours - and gave up :(
    ok so- a couple points to make.
    1.The returns you get may have only one oil on canvas on the page, and 20 pastels on it and 10 acrilics, 9 etchings, 3 engravings, 2 illuminations ...and a partridge in a pear tree
    so keep this in mind
    2.Visualizing what might be written on the pages of what you are seeking is an important element
    3. A great deal of pages have no TEXT whatso-ever on the page. So you have to be lucky and Hit the directory or filename.
    4.You still have thousands of returns that the engine is not going to let you look at because of its limitation on viewable returns
    so what good has categorizing done?

    Once you have made a word list of sorts in your native tounge [mine being redneck english] you can again expand or narrow your search by region. What i mean by region is this. Let's say i want to now find pages that have been written by an Italian webauthor in italian text. Hesheit may not have a single word on the page in englisch. Therefore if you are searching for "oil on canvas" in english you will miss out on thousands of returns of pages that instead have upon them "olio su tela".
    At the same time you will now expand your keywords search list with other words on the page. Example would be different ways of spelling the artists name...
    Using another language will generaly lock onto pages of that particular language and display those pages because the words, filename, directory, or Text, that the image is surrounded by produces an otherwise hidden web.
    There are many web sites that convert english TO another language making it simple to expand your searchs, altavista being just one of these.

    huile sur toile
    olje på lærret
    olio su tela
    Oleo sobre lienzo
    Öl auf Leinwand
    Olio su tavola
    óleo sobre tabla
    huile sur panneau

    these r of course all returns we won't see in any "oil on" request

    and once again its assummed that the text is on the page - or alt etc...

    hey it could be
    pen and ink

    and then what?? :)

    believe it or not - if im convinced its an "OIL" and i think its 1800's
    i simply begin with
    "oil on" 1800
    and then i look at returns
    then change the 0 to 1 -- 1801
    if some or none and my pic anit there i remove the one and insert 2 -- 1802
    i step thru the century catching perhaps the paintings date; the authors birth or death date, maybe some historical date etc...

    its not scientific

    it gets harder when query isn't indexed :(; well actualy in that example form it gets impossible outside of hidden base :)

    What are they standing on? A peir? A jetty?

    this i could never quite figure out
    at first glance i actualy thought they were on a ship; but no riggings present and they would have to be on bow or stern -
    i thought it might be a rescue
    i even went so far as to imagine that the seagulls put them within 20 miles of land (as i read somewhere sometime that gulls fly that far out)
    then i put my glasses on :)

    some kind of storm or surf sea wall?
    why be at the wall
    what is the interests out yonder?
    why the woman and child and thier link to the pointing finger?
    when are the rain-gear HATS dated -(example-- surely not 1600 or 17oo)
    whats with the scots hat?
    is he an immigrant or are they standing in his birthplace/s
    what kind of storm? my mind keeps saying a 'gale'
    is it historical?
    what words might be on the page if any?

    i never answered any of my questions with keywords; not in 3 days anyhow
    never found that fockin frog either :)


frog (25/01/05 21:43:22)
    you know that the riddle was solved, yes?

Re: frog - who can remember?? :) (25/01/05 21:58:06)
    none of my ideas worked- so i am pointing out to be cautious about any of my ideas :)

thoughts is right... (26/01/05 00:12:50)
    one has to resist the temptation... of giving a hint. :)

Probably that's one of the (rare) fun parts (26/01/05 00:55:02)
    of getting older: You learn something new every day.
    (it's also one of the most wonderful fun parts of youth, *sigh*).

    Come on, all you OLD GOATS around...! :)
    Don't get too coquettish and sentimental when it comes to age/aging:
    Getting older may have some positive aspects as well, he ;)
    but it's not a merit, per se.


Re: Probably that's one of the (rare) fun parts (26/01/05 01:19:52)
    whAts one of the fun parts??
    whad i forget now?
    talk about out of the blue- what r we refering to
    ohhhhhhh; something new everyday -
    and whos and old goat gotdamit?!?! ill have u know - ah - i'll - hum- shit, i forget, but when i rememeber ill have u know it!



Re: Re: Back to the riddle (25/01/05 21:56:20)
    oh and i completel forgot to what connection it might have to the alledged mirrored wors 'finance'

    what does image say in such a magazine/article/news/ etc? in conjunction with finance

    as mentioned
    weathering the storm
    the approaching storm

    the pointing finger could be an endoresement of help is acomin :)

    i think i was on one track using some of these words and coming up with something called the AIG <- i think those were the letters--- some software problem -syrus or some such spelled thing -

    but it could be some stormy financial times acomin type of article - heh

AIG (25/01/05 23:30:13)
    AIG: The world's largest insurer, American International Group Inc.

    There were in the financial news in 2004, as they were found guilty of fraud and fined $216m by the SEC.

Re: Re: Re: Back to the riddle (26/01/05 10:17:41)
    Have to concede it to you, Jeff, you may be losing memory, but you still are a hell of a seeker!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Back to the riddle (26/01/05 22:23:12)
    difinately have had this memory problem going on now 2 years since the 210/ blood pressure brain lock up...have improved with medicine; still cain't spell but i can finish sentences now without drooling :)

    hooooooooooowever the 'whoa' of course now leads me to believe theres some damned embed of finance involved here of the coming storms

    bastard :):):)

Closest signal (25/01/05 16:59:04)

waterproof clothing (26/01/05 00:16:45)
    Charles Macintosh

    The macintosh raincoat was named after Charles Macintosh, the Scottish chemist. In 1823, Charles Macintosh patented a method for making waterproof garments by using rubber dissolved in coal-tar naphtha for cementing two pieces of cloth together.

    While he was trying to find uses for the waste products of gasworks, Macintosh discovered that coal-tar naphtha dissolved india rubber. He took wool cloth and painted one side with the dissolved rubber preparation and placed another layer of wool cloth on top.

    This created the first practical waterproof fabric.

period (26/01/05 14:41:02)
    i spoke to an artist friend of mine and they said it was a 19th century oil painting

    since the mac v1 was invented in 1823, id say a conservative keyword could be


    though perhaps "1830..1870" is more realistic - im guessing this has the best probability of generating a close signal

Not only me, but museum curators get stuck on this one too ;) (29/01/05 06:17:05)
    The Yorkshire Museum sent a Delivery Status Notification, I guess they are still puzzled.

    The National Maritime Museum is afraid not to recognise this image and suggest that it might be worth asking the Royal National Lifeboat Institution if they know. They are based in Poole, Dorset.

    While the National Gallery of Scotland believes that this is a Scottish painting painted in the 2nd half of the 19th century which narrows down which artist it could be. But without a signature or any other information we can't be sure. However if you contact Helen Smailes at the National Gallery of Scotland she may be able to help you.

    This would -maybe- suggest that this painting isn't English after all.

    Bloody +Fravia's riddle!

    Don't we love a good slippery fish when we try to catch one!

The Tate is on it too! (30/01/05 16:48:20)

    Dear FarseaFarer,
    I have forwarded your JPG to our 1800-th century curator and If he
    recognise the painter he will email me back.
    I will contact you soon hopefully with some more information.

    Kind regards

    Anita Wernstrom-Pitcher
    Information Assistant
    Tate Britain

this social enginering kinda denies the purpose of the riddle :) (n/t) (30/01/05 20:56:14)


no it doesn't imo (31/01/05 11:39:15)
    it's just the first time that it seems to work.. with 909 and the RMS-lyrics
    riddle we also tried newsgroups and other social engineering, just asking the
    experts, tricks.. but then it didn't work :)

    i think it's very interesting to see how quick such an approach could solve
    a difficult riddle like this one.

    - ritz

Of course it doens't matter! (31/01/05 14:29:24)
    il-li seems to be afraid of some sort of spoil. We, real seafares, only share fresh catch, an old fish will never do nor please.

    What was revealed, and offered was just a mere museum path among many other possible one; but now burned out for any one else who came after ;)

    So ritz, dear, you are right in your operture, any paths that lead us there will do. And boys, oh boys, what a rich journey! T'is farseafarer just discover that curators with all their deep personal and underground knowledge are not only seekers but sharers too.

    Again, and again, and again, thank you +Fravia for the seemigly pompously frivolous push. The resulting trip, and the fantastic juwels found all along are priceless.

Re: The Tate is on it too! (01/02/05 17:32:09)
    Good Combing!

Re: The Tate is on it too! (13/10/05 20:10:49)
    Any reply from the Tate?

publisher route (31/01/05 17:33:19)
    I think this is a valid idea.

    Ive tried the obvious idea of 'The Economist' - they seem to have mainly cartoons, not paintings

    But they do source in pictures from corbis which does at times give a good signal. Again keywords must be guessed (change your view options to display 100 per page and 10,000 images)

    You need to ask yourself not only about what this article may have been, but also, where did the publisher source the picture from? Normally, some commercial image bank will have a good chance here?

Re: publisher route (01/02/05 22:45:59)
    another interesting thought i had was to try and work out the letters above "(finance)"

    i spent some time on this and could neither establish (what the font) or the actual characters

    notice also the horizontal line an a slight angle and also the vertical line at an acute angle to the horizontal

    then i thought - could the writing above be in a foreign language - with (finance) below the translation?

The word "Finance" itself isn't necessarily English. (n/t) (02/02/05 16:53:41)


Approaching land (04/02/05 01:13:08)
    What do you think about "approaching land"? ...Because of birds! (Just look at the image)

Re: taking a 'peek' (10/02/05 19:32:01)
    anybody any idea what these words might mean?

    ? if anything; it's in rough2 using 'peek'

Re: Re: taking a 'peek' (11/02/05 14:47:54)
    where did you find that string? On corbis?

Re: Re: Re: taking a 'peek' (11/02/05 17:23:55)
    well ive looked into corbis - i surely like the nice long list of keywords inside of the images - but i never saw our image- unless it just doesn;t like 'sea' type words- thinking this image used inside a mag news article might endear copyright permission i felt a tingle when i saw corbis had such a platform/format/ for one to use - to be able to use - so i thought i was hot on the trail yesterday :) funny u mention corbis today :) u know what they say about wierd minds :):)

    i saw it using Peek inside the rough2 sea image from the riddle page
    00001C4B: :sHph
    00001D68: <theb
    00001DBD: iobBUN
    00001F25: 'CFqM'

    could be nothing; but suspicious how it seems to be a legitimate string

Re: Re: Re: Re: taking a 'peek' (11/02/05 17:49:20)
    Ah, I see. But 'thebiobBUN' is not a continuous string of chars within
    the file, as PEEK seemingly tells you. Rather, it's two strings: "theb"
    and "iobBUN" that are some 80+ bytes apart in the file. PEEK, in its
    default mode, shows only occurences of four sequential printable chars
    and filters out any gibberish in between (check with UEdit in HEX viewing mode).

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: taking a 'peek' (11/02/05 18:46:28)
    ok - thanks- i knew someone would striagten me out...see i am getting so fast with my 2 fingers i get the 'i' before the 'a'; its like hte

    isn't there a 'rowing course' in brussels called 'theb'?

    but fravia can't row his boat; i mean all his oars aren't in the water; i mean :):):) he's got a sailboat

    am tryin constantly not to make this hard, butt can not figure out why this one is 'easy'

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: taking a 'peek' (12/02/05 23:17:04)
    i think it's just conincidence

    the only 'strings' you should find in a normal JFIF (JPEG) format are "JFIF" some header information - some space for comments (no comments in this file i think) - and some patterns in the huffman tables - further down the image is just encoding of the 8x8 squares in the image

    this nice page explains the JFIF format and how you can extract header information

    some header info i extracted and using jpegdump reveals:

    grayscale jpeg
    version 1
    no thumbnail
    horizontal sampling 1
    vertical sampling 1
    width 743
    height 491
    Approximate quality factor for qtable 0:32

    Still not much to go on - i have also searched corbis thouroughly and no joy - but some close matches

FYI: your post has already been indexed by MSN web search. (n/t) (11/02/05 14:56:49)


Another signal (13/10/05 02:14:33)

    technique: filetype:jpg

    note this can also be used to find victor very easily

Doesn't seem to be of any help, but (13/10/05 17:46:34)
    scotts - english and english - scotts dictionary for the Nac Mac Feegle in you ;)

BINGO! (05/02/06 23:42:46)
    F+ you fiend!!

    We were so close all along ...

NOT a spoiler (06/02/06 16:15:20)
    The image can be found with the right bow and an easy arrow or with an easy bow and a very hard arrow.

    Fravias clues are maybe cryptic but relevant.

    Well... who?




    and when? painted the above depicted (in black and white) image?

    Half solved.

    Can you (relatively quickly) find the same in colors on the web?

    Relatively quickly = 18 months? Yes. Solved. :)

    How... that is: using which methods, arrows, helpers, aids?

    Will publish spoiler on request.

    This is a easy one, he: Just look at the image.

    Look at the IMAGE. Do not look at the file ;)

Re: NOT a spoiler (13/02/06 20:14:44)
    Ho, hey!
    Forgot the say: bravo ;)

    I'm just wondering - you got the who, but not the where?

Re: Re: NOT a spoiler (13/02/06 22:12:17)
    thanks :)

    i got the country of origin but not the place, but actually another seeker already got (guessed?) that country correctly

    as to where the painting currently is, that I do know


    certificate: BMTEN ; the cap is red and white tartan

    Just say, and I'll tell you how I found it and techniques used, if you want me to publish the spoiler?

By all means, go ahead! (n/t) (13/02/06 22:47:29)


Please do! (n/t) (13/02/06 23:56:13)


Re: Re: Re: NOT a spoiler (14/02/06 10:47:59)
    "certificate: BMTEN ; the cap is red and white tartan", muahhhh didn´t I tell you this ages ago in the D! I think our English friend was still here?!

** SPOILER ** (29/04/06 15:21:39)

    Yet with images riddles, one never knows. Some are harder, some easier. It all depends from the 'lateral cut' when searching, I suppose.

    Well... who? where? and when? painted the above depicted (in black and white) image?
    Can you (relatively quickly) find the same in colors on the web? How... that is: using which methods, arrows, helpers, aids?

    This is a easy one, he: Just look at the image.


    All the clues for finding the answer to this riddle are in the text above.

    As not much more than a zombie seeker, it look me a quite a long time to find this image, but I did it in the end.

    First of all there are some quite good resources for images on the net, two of which are fravia+'s own image page and also the one i like from faganfinder These pages will give you a background on the main tools for seeking images of any kind.

    On to the riddle. To give a background you may look at other riddles and essays. The two keys from these essays are A) persistence - keep trying until you get the solution B) look at the riddle - very often the title of the file, (in this case rough.jpg) is a clue - however, in this case A) is more useful than B) since "rough" turned out not to be a keyword. Maybe here is a clue This is a easy one, he: Just look at the image..

    Next we look at the specific target. After some simple seeking/combing it should be fairly easy to determine that it is a 19th century oil painting in the realism style. Several good art resources exist such as, artcyclopedia and others described above. Once again this did not prove successful after extensive searching.

    After failing many times I resorted to writing my own bot. But again this could not locate the image anywhere, with the obvious keywords.

    This is a easy one, he: Just look at the image.

    Looking closely at the image we see it is a magazine scan. What a big clue. Where do magazine writers take their images from? Well now the penny was dropping. Why could I not find this image anywhere? Of course, because it was not on the visible net. So let's go commercial and try our first stop - getty / imagebank

    A very close signal here but no match. But what's this - advanced search. Ah ha we are close now. We need to select illustrations only, then look for only rights managed material and with the relatively simple keyword "storm" (others work too) you find your target on the 2nd page.

    Bingo! The painting is "The missing boat" by Erskine Nicol, painted in Scotland c.1876.

You deserve a BIG reward (29/04/06 16:16:19)
    it was not at all that easy after all
    email me.


Petit image

(c) 3rd Millennium: [fravia+], all rights reserved, reversed, revealed and reviled