Petit image

(Updated in July 2003)
Examples of possible solutions
[+Forseti's solution to the entire Lab]
[1) mp3]   [2) Text]   [3) Text]   [4) image]   [5) file]

1) [mp3] mp3 searching
Elementary inference skills ('few elements' searching) & crap-sites elimination basics

Aqua Barbie
[a possible solution, by ~Veliti~]    [a possible solution, by Jeff]

A possible solution, by ~Veliti~
For Mp3s' there's many different ways of finding them.
You could just go to Napster, but I figure you want us to try it
out on the web, which makes it a bit harder.  
First thing wouldc be to figure out what search engine.  
Lets try good old Google. We could also use a specialized 
engines (à la Geocities), though.
Next is the search string. Just to start out, I have never heard
of the song nor of the group.  
          1)+"Aqua Barbie" +mp3   
recieved many pages + w/ barbie girl as the title so...

          2)+"Aqua Barbie" +mp3 -girl zip   
used -girl to get rid or the barbie "girl" part then remembered 
that alot of times on the web they place mp3 files in zip format!  

Bingo! From the many thousand (1) I narrowed it down to about 40 (2)

The first few look like the typical useless "list pages" so just keep 
looking...  looks like from the 7th site downwards could hold some signal.  
There it is right there (in zip format nevertheless)

 First Test: clues...Aqua Barbie, mp3
            +"Aqua Barbie" +mp3 -girl zip

*** isn't that a Geocities-type web site farm? "NBCI" ;)
No, it's a concoction of xoom and snap
*** of course, if your in a hurry, NAPSTER (for any mp3)


A possible solution, by Jeff

1) [mp3] mp3 searching
Elementary inference skills ('few elements' searching) & crap-sites elimination basics

Aqua Barbie, the hunt: in search of the blue doll

I must admit that I have probably only downloaded about (3) three  mp3's in as many years

It was probably just my bad searching techniques but I do recall at the time it was very frustrating to locate the song that I wanted.

It was even more frustrating to finaly find the dam song and to find out that it was only a 30 second clip

I have read at searchlores only yesterday, while hovering around the last section of +fravia's site, that nowadays the songsters feed you portions of a song and as you are listening to it it is dumping the content so that you can not even save it... I read about what happened to this place called Napster too; I had never visited napster before...I guess you can put it down to my rarely being interested in searching for and procuring mp3's...

Wanting to avoid finding 30 second clips and downloads that you can not even save anymore I asked myself WHERE can I probably find a FULL version of this barbie song that I can also download?
The answer that came to me was the classical 'combing' strategie: to find someone else who had already found it and saved it

So I went to google and requested her to find me
index +of/ Aqua Barbie mp3

I get myself 248 hits

(note that I typed in ( index +of / ) ... google will get me returns in this way of peoples exposed/ Open directories... If you think about it, and it's possibilities, I'm sure you can come up with a major list of snooping-keyword-exploits :)

but back to the blue doll
the third link is what I am looking for it seems to me...
Index of /vascoant/mp3

Index of /vascoant/mp3. ... 20:42 3.7M All_Saints__Pure_Sho..>
08-Sep-2000 21:30 6.0M
<b>Aqua - Barbie Girl.mp3 </b>28-Mar-2000 17:11 3.0M Aqua - Doctor Jones
... - 2k - Cached - Similar pages

now i can just step into vascoant's mp3 directory and have a look
around, where i see:
Aqua - Barbie Girl.mp3  28-Mar-2000 17:11   3.0M a 3 meg download... I assume that this is not a 30 second clip then

The word Girl though is throwing me off... (IF I KNEW the name of the band and the name of the song I was looking for this would not have been a problem in this search...but I better make sure)

I look at the fourth link and go to
it... and it also says... Aqua-Barbie Girl  ... and it has other songs next to the Aqua name so now I presume that Aqua is probably the name of the group and that Barbie (GIRL) is the full name of the song

(assume and presume are not real great things to have in my vocabulary but one day as knowledge and practice take over I will presumably be able to throw those keywords out of my writtings  :)

Time to find:...1-2-3 minutes

beer time

2) [Text] A very easy introduction to "referenced" text searching & search engines "oddnesses"
Main search engines quickfinding

"Ingenium quondam fuerat pretiosius auro,
At nunc barbaria est grandis habere nihil

See also [hump_32.htm]: Worms, angles and search engines quirks, by Humphrey P., February 2001

Neoptolemos_s' approach
~Veliti~'s approach

[An example of possible solution ]
~Veliti~'s approach, slightly edited by fravia+

I know the first two tests are quite easy; so I hesitated to write this but I figured out that if I write something then maybe others would write too. The second Quest's Clue:
"Ingenium quondam fuerat pretiosius nuro At nunc barbaria est grandis haber nihil"
Well the first engine to use when searching for text should be Raging, shouldn't it?
So off to raging I went.
Now, when searching for a quote: should we use the entire quote or just fragments of it? Well for this search we can start with just fragments.
First Fragment: +"Ingenium quondam" Gives me 1 page :)
It's a "fisherman" page at :(
Well before we give up, lets try a different variation! Second Fragment: +"fuerat pretiosius" Gives me 2 pages :)
The first one seems to be that same "fisherman" page.
I wonder why?? THIS IS A LAB so we should figure out why it keeps appearing. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with what we are looking for (of course I checked the source code).
Probably just the "messed up" way engines do sort things. But why does this happen?
Is it possible that these words have been previously on those pages and now disappeared?
It seems highly unlikely given the content of the page, but let's see: if so these words might have been there when Google, with its glorious cache, catalogued them. Let's see:
Woha! I was wrong! Google is definitely MUCH better than raging for this specific snippet example!

Ok, next time I'll start by Google when searching snippets. (After all for +"Ingenium quondam" Altavista & Raging give only 1 result, Hotbot and Fast give 6 results each, but google gives 12 different results!).
Anyway let's keep on track! I was investigating Google's cache to see if we can find an older copy of this strange Fisherman page:
Nope, it must be a raging quirck then. Or maybe google re-indexed its cache recently, after those world were taken off the source code... unlikely... Is there any other reason for Raging indexing that page that doesn't have a single latin word in it?

I wonder how anyone would possibly ever find that nice man "fisherman" page.
(unless they were specifically looking for it!)

Anyways where were we? The second page in Raging seems to carry very strong signal.

Note to any real ~Seeker~ out there. Be nice to those that learn! Please! Even with these easy tests: take some time and show us how you went about on your own search, so we can learn the many different "real life" approaches that seekers take when looking for (and finding) there targets.

Dear Fravia,
after finally getting to the classrooms/lab1 on your a(maze)ing site, i feel the solution to the second task: referenced text searching, presented there is not complete.
It seems to me not only important to find the referenced text, but also the translation thereof. I admight it is a shortcoming not to know latin, i think i'm not the only one though.
Below are the notes i wrote will trying to find the text and the translation. Please excuse the unshaven format, and do with this text as you see fit.
2) [Text] A very easy introduction to "referenced" text searching & search engines "oddnesses"
Main search engines quickfinding
"Ingenium quondam fuerat pretiosius auro,
At nunc barbaria est grandis habere nihil"
Opera ->new page -> search Google :
Ingenium quondam fuerat pretiosius auro, At nunc barbaria est grandis habere nihil
56 results(first ones are fravia's, (pushing your site to the high rankings eh? :-))

search again, this time using double quotes:
"Ingenium quondam fuerat pretiosius auro, At nunc barbaria est grandis habere nihil"
3 results: note: only fravia matches exactly! see:
1st (fravia): Ingenium quondam fuerat pretiosius auro, At nunc barbaria est grandis habere nihil
2nd: ingenium quondam fuerat pretiosius auro; at nunc barbaria est grandis, habere nihil
3rd: ingenium quondam fuerat pretiosius auro; at nunc barbaria est grandis, habere nihil
so apparently: case insensitive search, and for google: "," is the same as ";", how cometh?
furthermore different parts of the search string are shown bold to indicate the match.
succesfull query:,+At+nunc+barbaria+est+grandis+habere+nihil%22&sourceid=opera&num=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
non fravia results:
both results on the same pot-pourri? be(lgium) server+directory (duh)
text seems to be from Ovidius, amor..something.
(please no [fl/n]ames, i'm allready ashamed i don't immediatly know which book it is)
(chapter?) 3.0: LIBER TERTIVS, part VIII
check the sites:
both files contain the same parts of a text (book?) amores_03.txt seems to be the most resent.
Index of/ Ovide: directory seems to contain a lot of texts by Ovidius.
Index of/ TEXTES: the jackpot!? directories with authors names.
very interesting site anyway, picked up an latin <-> french dictionairre, might be usefull in the pursuit of this quest :-)
its the site of the universite de louvain (in french mostly)
ok enough, lets try and find the full name of this book by Ovidius then:
google: +Ovidius +amor +(book OR text) : 500+ results
+Ovidius +amor +(books OR texts) : ~300 resuls
most results here are about (meth(amor)phosis), this is not what we're looking for.

i didn't mention it earlier, it becomes important now though:
in the directory Ovide/ ( see above) there are also text files with names like: met<number>.txt i have taken these files to be the methamorphosis texts, therefore the amor(es) texts are not from the methamorphosis (fair enough?)
ok, not getting anywhere, lets try:
+Ovidius +amores +(books OR texts)
right: even more (391) results, however from the results it is clear that the title of the book is amores,
on the first result page, lets try:
check out book 3, part 8 and find:
Translation of the latin text:
Time was when genius was held more precious than gold; now, if you've no money, you are accounted the veriest barbarian!
Although i don't know latin, i can make enough out of it to be confident this is a correct translation.
Just to check: there is a link to the latin text right after the link to the transaltion.
finally: Bookmark sacret texts page! and second quest is finished .
time spent: ab. 1 hr. (my attention span of (slightly more than) 3 and a half seconds seems to bother me here, although ..  er er, sorry, don't remember what i'm trying to say here.
it was time well spend though, found some nice places to look into when i have the time :-)

3) [Text] Easy introduction to "plagiarism" seeking
"The secret of the many words" searching

"The professional industry standard remains Adobe Photoshop (version 5 is now available), a full-featured image editing application. However, if you work on a PC, you may want to try Paint Shop Pro, which has some of the same features for a fraction of the cost"

Possible solution for the 3rd "challenge" of the first classroom

After I tried the first 2 tests of this lab, i realized those were for real newbies [I'm not that expert myself, I'm a newbie too]. It took me only one second to find relevant results (using google).
In the third one It me took a little more than that. I thought I should write this because there were no solutions published.
First what does the word plagiarism mean? (As you may have realized, english is not my first language, it's neither the 2nd)
I looked it up in the dictionary, for those who are lazy and who doesn't know, it's the act of plagiarizing, which means to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own. I have no clue what does it have to do with searching (not yet at least) perhabs we'll learn during the solving of this essay...

Back to the test:
I assumed that I am searching for a page containing the text:
"The professional industry standard remains Adobe Photoshop (version 5 is now available), a full-featured image editing application. However, if you work on a PC, you may want to try Paint Shop Pro, which has some of the same features for a fraction of the cost"
I doesn't make sense to copy the whole text to the search engine of your choice (google was my first choice- and lazyness plays a big role in that, because as you may know the opera browser (ver:6) uses(by default) google as the 1st choice when we search using it) so I had to choose a part of the text to copy.[BTW most search engines support a limited number of search words, google supports 10 , correct me if I'm wrong.]
I chose the first time "professional industry standard remains Adobe Photoshop (version 5 is now available)" that's a lot, but who cares I'm just copy/pasting. Too bad no result (except fravia pages and mirrors which are scattered all over the net [that's real good having your pages all over the net]) So I removed some part of this long query, I tried [ "Adobe Photoshop (version 5 is now available)" -fravia ] but still no luck. Well google didnt do it perhabs others can.
I tried, altavista... still nothing. If you're getting the wrong answers chances are that you are asking the wrong questions. Change the query.
Now I used (back to google) [ "Adobe Photoshop" +"Paint Shop Pro" ] and I got sooooo many results, much more than I need (that's logical these two softwares are really old and you rarely mention one without the other). But still that's a good start, much better than before. (BTW when using opera search features you can get the results from both google and alltheweb each in a different browser window by selecting "super search" from the search engines dropdown list.)
So now I must narrow my search results. I added to the previous query "professional industry standard". I got three results.
The search querry was:
[ "Adobe Photoshop" + " Paint Shop Pro" +" professional industry standard" -fravia ]
The second result seems to be the good one. Tools Overview (Web Design in a Nutshell, 2nd Edition) "" I opened it and I found the following text:
"The professional industry standard remains Adobe Photoshop (Version 6 is available as of this writing), a full-featured image-editing application (see for more information). However, if you work on a PC, you may want to try Paint Shop Pro, which has some of the same features at a lower cost."
I tried to colorize the differences between what I was supposed to find and what I found. It seems I found an updated version of the text.[it seems that Adobe Photoshop was still in Version 5] That was the best I could do. If anyone can do better and find the exact text, or maybe find a copy of the older text still unupdated, that would be good. I hope you can describe How you did it.
Now what did I learn from this essay?
First : try different search engines.(I did't learn it now I already know it, I've read too many fravia's;)
Second: try different querries, if too many words give no result, shorten your querry and than narrow it bit by bit.
Third : it's a good idea to understand what are you searching for and analyse the results, why are they many and/or why are they little and/or what are the most frequent results. This will help filtering the noise and focus on the relevant results.
I'm not suffering from insanity, I'm enjoying every minute of it. (That's not mine. That's plagiarism:P [greetings to the author who ever he is])

No copyrights, CopyLeft might do better.
l00natic (electronic mail: l00natic2002A_Tyahoopointcom )
4) [Images] Image seeking elementary lores. (Note the filename... :-)

16856 bytes, 241*221 pixels, you better use Opera 
and learn how to turn images off, duh...          
[Iefaf's]    [Jeff's]   

Iefaf's solution... (January 2001)

Start chrono: 10:21:03.329

Lets start with the clues given by the pic as to collect relevant keywords.
Obviously this is a Russian naval decoration with an emblasoned 300 or maybe a cyrillic word.

Possible keywords and/or synonyms:
- russian, soviet
- navy, fleet, submarine, submarine fleet
- decoration, medal, badge, pin
- 300

Usually I start a search with alltheweb.

First search:
Keywords: russian+navy+decoration
7400687 documents found - 0.336 seconds search time
Too many.

Second search
Keywords: russian+navy+decoration must contain 300 in the text
541632 documents found - 0.41 seconds search time
Still too many.

Another approach is in order. On the WWW most websites are in English.
To reduce the hits, lets try a new search in another language. In this case: French.

Third search
Keywords: décorations+russes
4 documents found - 0.022 seconds search time
The "Bibliographie sur la phaleristique russe" seems promising.
It has a link page to russie/embleme/html/stg/liens.htm It's well organised, with a subdivision to Soviet Russia from 1917-1991. Lets see there:

1- The Soviet Military Awards Page
2- Réunions des musées russes
3- Collectrussia
4- Soviet Orders & Medals Links
5- Historicalresearch
6- Orders and Medals of the USSR

Link 1,2 did not give good quick results.
Link 4 points to another links list. The Soviet Militaria Site catch my attention because there is a Navy and Marines Badges page (/badges.html#NAVY) with a slightly different picture of the badge.

Chrono: 11:16:44.877

Link 3, a commercial one, was followed after discovering the value of "300". There is a pic identical to 183-2-01.jpg but with a different background and another name.

Stop chrono: 11:21:43.164

1.How easy (or difficult) was it to figure out the correct approach?
Surprisingly easy. I have tried 2/3 times some time ago using the file name(183-2-01.jpg) approach without any results.

2.Was the formulation adequate to help you plan your search?

3.Which search-approaches and strategies did you choose?
First take the clues from the image itself. Second, use keywords in a language other than English.

4.Did you use any "classical" search engine? If so which ones?

5.Did you use any "special" search engine? If so which ones?

6.How many results did you retrieve?
First 7.400.687 then 4.

7.What proportion of the results were relevant to your perceived information requirements?

8.How current were the results? How many 404s?
The first good pointer was recently updated. No 404.

9.Was the amount of detail displayed with the results enough to allow you tho evaluate?
Yes, because the search was related to a narrow field: russian naval decoration.

10.Was the order in which the results were displayed evident or apparently illogical?

11.What other features contribute to (or detract from) the utility of the tools and approaches you choosed?
I had a low level of concentration, as the kids were playing hide and seek all over the place. The last pic was found while 2 kids hiding right at my feet.

12.Did you time your query?
Total search time: 01:00:40

The specific 183-2-01.jpg was not found. The search was cancelled when 2 similar badges were found, and after I discover the why and when there it was minted.

Jeff's solution... (March 2001)

A great work by Jeff. Finding unknown images is far from being easy, as [An Argy's essay] will show you, yet Jeff has shot down his quarry in a very quick and effective way...



it would be a pity if you read the solution 
BEFORE having had your own go at it 
you would regret it afterwards
you don't believe me? Scroll down...


Jeff's solution... (March 2001)

...continued from my postings at The Seekers messageboard (note: i didn't post this afterall ---I'm not sure if its a secret thing --- or if its suppossed to be OPEN to a person or group effort so I won't post till I find out)
so as you can see my search began looking for other pins that might have some of the same symbols on them---instead of trying to find the exact pin from Lab1--- had i stumbled on it all the better (but I wouldn't have learned much)--- after I realizeed my mistake in thinking these were WINGS under the single STAR and finding a match of this particular symbol at: a similar pin
it wasn't but a few more moments looking at this sites additional links that I saw the Blue X on white background Flag found the flag
so ok...I have probably identified the flag (but not its meaning), the Country (Russia), and which unit of military (Submarine) that this (pin) probably belongs too by looking at other similar pins...
lab1 additional having now gathered some more keywords google I search for: Russian Submarine Pins
many returns one catches my eye
Russian Island: Gifts, Collectibles, Jewelry, Antique, ... ... medals Soviet badges Soviet pins Russian streamers Soviet ... era Red October Soviet Submarine Order of the Red ... Lenin Stalin Traditional Russian folk dolls Unique ... - 21k - Cached - Similar pages Russian island click click...scroll scroll...looking thru list to see what jumps out at

now this one looks familiar eh? I see nothing on PINS but I see a link to 'badges'--- I was wonderin' why that 'badges' reference was there from ~M Scuba diving post...I figured I'd keep my eye pealed for that word in case it was an additional humph clue...I am wondering now though

weather I would have clicked on this link if i had not been focused in on trying to unravel that scuba diving message...if it had the word PIN in it I would have for sure...but now I am interested in what IS a soviet badge?...

Russian Soviet USSR Military Badges

SPECIAL We will sell any badge on that site 10% lower than any of our reputable competitors. Please give us URL where you found the lower price and we will adjust our bill accordingly.
hummmm... no search engine here ---but these certainly look like 'pins'!!! ---so a badge is similar to a pin---might have to look up what
the difference is between the two--- but I can add 'badges' to my list of keywords now for sure!~
so there are many images here and I am gona have to look thru many pages
it would seem...whats this? yer kidding me right? page 7 link
don't click here if you are still searching for it
Note: whats the name of that FILE.... right click...View IMAGE (name) yaba-daba-doo.jpg ??? yeppers....


more info
This Russian official submarine badge made out of brass and enamel, approx. size 1.5"

This seems to be the one...
Time to find image with the above search keywords...aprox 5 minutes

total time to gather words -ideas- other false ideas---searching flags/pins/ ect... probably 3-4 hours plus 5 minutes :)

* * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * *
additional: it seems to me now, that the flag was not a COUNTRY flag; which was why I could not find it because I did not expand my thinking and my flag search idea/s... so it would seem now in retrospect to be a Military flag??? well--I'll have to look it up and see...

google: search... Russian Naval Flags
ok...on this page the picture of the flag with the Blue X on white background is called a Naval Ensign

5) [Files] Old files elementary searching - perusing old alleys of the web

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Gametime Products present's   *
* PATH-FINDer version 1.0       *
* By Lawrence Daniels           *
* - Searches the PATH for files *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

No wild cards ('*','?') or backslash ('\') in file

[Examples of possible solutions]
example 1    example 2
Example 1
by Loki, January 2001, is unrelated.

Our program seems to have been written in DOS ( ascii art ).
The gametime name could refer to some coding group.

Search for gametime+DOS gives nothing ( some BBS respond, but too long to answer )

Why not using ftpsearch to find the whole package ?
How could it have been named ? Wich packager ?
pfinder.arj ? pfinder.rar ? ? ?

trying the following one

Downloading the first one
Reading pathfind.doc

* * PATHFIND version 1.0 * *

PATHFIND looks at the PATH in DOS and returns all files with the
filename that you specify.
Usage: PATHFIND filename.ext

not the same ascii art ... is it another path-finder ? It's not the same name too

but :

We at Gametime, have also written other programs:
Which include some fantastic CGA games, Educational software,
as well as some quite valuable utilities!

* For a computerized catalog of all available software
send: $1.00 to our mail address.

Lawrence Daniels (Sales Person)
17186 Fairfield
Detroit, Mi 48221

it is the same coder !

Ok, so the given ascii in the lab is the header when u run the program :)
PATH-FINDer version 1.0 <= PATH-FIND is in caps

we're done :)

Example 2
by Loki, January 2001,
My first approach was a brutal raging search. Maybe during 5 minutes.
But the fact that the group was named Gametime create lots of noise to use this kind of approach : lots of game docs, lots of tools for rpg.

This was the (M) Mechanical mode ( using the information given on the seachal page ), queries like "Gametime Products present's" or "PATH-FINDer version 1.0"
I think that mode has the particularity to be easily coded.

The next approach uses more of our brain, the (I) Intelligence Mode.
Let's think a little, what we have is an ascii art ( -> DOS ? ), of a tool written by Lawrence Daniels ( a programmer ) in the Gametime group/company/sect.
Why not trying to find a coding team called Gametime, maybe an oldsk00l group :)
The search for gametime+dos gives some noise. Maybe the BBS related answer are interesting.
5 minutes later ... maybe it is possible to find that portion of text ( seems to be a header ==> "No wild cards ('*','?') or backslash ('\') in file" ) using the (I) mode, but the digging could be long

That let me introduce the (U) Mode ... it's a "de-mode". A little similar to the (I) one, but maybe, more organic ? Call it zen if u want :)
We need a proggy, maybe written some years ago ( few ones write dos programs in our days ). It must be on some server .. ftp one !
Okay, why not FTPSearch.

But for what ? :) Read the nomomen lessons

DOS tool, must have a readme file no ? so it must be packaged. Zip, rar, arj ?
The most common : zip. Anyway, we can make searches without firstly.
It must be a 8 letters max file.
pfinder / pafind / pathfind ?
pathfind looks the most ... real :) And it is in caps (PATH-FINDer)

I tried pathfind in first, and it was the good one. to clean the list

Total time : ~15 minutes

The M, I, and U mode were taken from the GEB ( "Goedel Escher Bach an Eternal Golden Braid" ) of D. Hoffstader.
He used them to represents 3 different approach of an enigm in a formal system.
What suprised me is that the U mode IS written to be the zen approach :)


Feedback, critics, suggestions, ameliorations... welcome!
[Hints for lazy searchers]   [Back to LAB 1] [Preparing for Lab2]  
Petit image

(c) III Millennium: [fravia+], all rights reserved